CM (Aired 01-03-2025) HOW TO GET YOUR STORY OUT THERE: A Guide to Publishing Paths

[00:00:31] Speaker A: Hello, everybody. Welcome to Communication Makeover. You may recognize me, my name is Todd Wahl from Communication Breakthrough. But this is a spin off of that very concept. We're all looking for that breakthrough in our business, in our life. Maybe you're a key communicator of some sort and you're an expert what you do, but there's a gap that you recognize. We all need a makeover of some sort in our communication because when we hone in our communication, the magic happens. So what you're going to recognize on this show is we're going to showcase coaching. Many people use that term coach, but we're going to show you as expert communication coaches, both not just me, but but also my co host, Deidra Breckenridge, which you've also seen on Communication Breakthrough. We're going to go and we're going to work one on one with individuals who want to hone in their coaching method. Let me bring her on now. Deidra, I am so excited to bring this concept public. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Me too. I love those breakthrough moments. It's the aha. And just letting everybody see those moments. [00:02:06] Speaker A: Hello, everybody. Thank you for this opportunity to hear about Communication Makeover because this is a passion for Deirdre and I. Let me begin with where we started. Communication Makeover is a spin off of Communication Breakthrough where we believe that intentional communication leads to the breakthrough in your business and in your life. Well, Deirdre and I are communication coaches and we have a communication breakthrough method. Even if I'm a professional, I stumble all over it. A communication breakthrough method that we are using as coaches to bring people the breakthrough that they're actually looking for. Deirdre, let me bring you into this conversation. We love coaching. We love coaching and we love the breakthrough that comes from those aha moments because people get so frustrated with whether it's the tension of being on stage, whether everyone's got these different little things, they can't get the words out out the way that they want to. So talk to me a little bit and let's explain what is coaching that brings the aha moment? [00:03:22] Speaker B: Well, it's the power of coaching that brings that transformation. And you mentioned that intentional breakthrough method. It's a framework that you work through and it all starts with being able to identify what's really going on. What's that situational awareness and working with somebody so that they can clearly find their path and impact and what they want to achieve and do that work so that they can get to that free flowing moment that aha Of I can do this. And what's great is they do it themselves. We just bring it out of them. And that's a great moment. [00:04:00] Speaker A: That is the power of coaching, you know, within the method, it's recognizing a lot of times people don't have a clear outcome of what they're looking for. Therefore, they can't build backwards and build the path. And so coaching is the process of not telling people how to do something, but opening up awareness and discovery. And then people go, oh, I knew how to do this all the time. Like Deirdre in our pilot episode with Brooke, you build the bridge of the retention of being on stage to how she rides horses on a continual basis and how she brings peace. And in that moment, she goes, oh my gosh, I've known how to do this the whole time. And you go, you're right. [00:04:47] Speaker B: You have just a reset. And once you can figure out that you've done it somewhere else, it then makes sense. But you don't know what you don't know. And sometimes the questions and the conversation and the discussion and the paths that we go down leads to those moments. And that's extremely gratifying. As a coach, I love to see people have the aha moment. [00:05:13] Speaker A: And that's the beauty of it, is it's visible. And so if you're looking to be on this show, a sponsor of this show, what you will see on a continual basis is a visible change in people. You will see the emotion, even at times of tears as they find that breakthrough that has been so frustrating to them. And so if you want to be part of life change and of life changers who are communicators and have a message to share, but they just, they're just at that frustration point, then join us in this breakthrough and join us on this journey as we help people change other people's lives. You're invited to join and we can't wait to have you with us. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome to Communication Makeover where we're looking at the intentional things you can do to make a transformation in your communication. A lot of times it's just the little things that you do. So it's not the, it's not that you have to become a brand new person where a whole different version of yourself. A lot of times it's just a, remember to smile at the end of that. Remember to raise your energy level just a little bit so they know that you're actually interested in what you have to say. Now in this, this segment, I want to focus on one of Kate's, her. What I often call her magical sword. What is a. A tool that she uses that helps that person transform their perspective to get the breakthrough that's needed within the coaching process to really transform and make over their communication and create the connection that they're actually looking for. Let me bring her on now, Kate. So, like Camelot and Excalibur, what is your secret weapon? [00:07:16] Speaker C: So I'm going to tell you about my specific secret weapon tool, but I want to talk a little about why I think it's so important. So we, I think, tend to focus on what we're not good at as people. Right. We love to focus on our weaknesses. If I ask my clients, what are your weaknesses? I usually get like 1, 2, 3, 4. I can tell you all these things that I'm so self conscious about or that I'm not sure I do. Well, then I ask my clients, what are your strengths? And I usually get silence and I get some uncomfortable. I don't know, do you want to tell me what my strengths are? Or, you know, that feels really uncomfortable. That's not something I spend a lot of time thinking about. So the tool, the secret tool that I use with a lot of clients is actually to help them understand what they're good at. And this is not just me going, yay, rah, rah. You have strengths. It's because I think we tend to focus so much on weaknesses when we really don't get a lot out of harping on those. But we could get a lot out of thinking about, where do I have natural strengths and abilities that I could build on, that I could leverage, that I could do more with to have more impact for me, better at my job? So I ask them to think about what I call an accomplishments record. So I'll say, I don't care. When this happened, you could have been five years old, you could be 50 years old when your accomplishment happened. But think about the top seven to 10 things that come to your mind when you say, in my whole life, personal, professional, everything, what am I most proud of that I've accomplished? And that usually requires some thought and some work. I actually usually get an email in the middle of this assignment to say something along the lines of, kate, I hate you and I hate this homework assignment. And I usually take that as a good. That means it's working because they're pushing past their comfort zone. But then I asked them in this session, what we do is we walk through the accomplishments and I ask them, how did you accomplish this? What Strengths did you use? What did you learn about yourself when you were going through this? That brings such a richness and such an understanding of who they are, what their strengths are, and then they'll always end with this person. Sounds really impressive, don't they? Good list of strengths and accomplishments. And it's not so much about the accomplishment as it is what it is about you that got you there. [00:09:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So would you say that the. The power of this is one is giving them permission to go to the positive and go to that optimistic what might be possible because they. Because, like, you're right. We just. It's so much easier to beat ourselves up. I mean, and so permission, it sounds like, is the first thing that you do in that exercise. Would you agree with that? [00:09:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Like, permission to be proud of yourself. I feel like that's. That's a funny thing to say, but a lot of us don't love to celebrate ourselves or we're much more comfortable celebrating other people. And so, yeah, it's permission to be proud of yourself to me, your coach. Right. I'm. I'm going to be proud of you, too. But it's more important that they're proud of themselves. [00:10:05] Speaker A: And it sounds like the next aspect of that once they've got. Even though it's painstaking to actually write that down, we feel like culturally we don't have permission to. To go to that positive place. But even after they. They probably broad stroke it, a lot of times it sounded like the power was, okay, now let's unpack this, and let's maybe. Let's go three more layers deep. How do you lead them in that direction? Because it sounds like that's where the real magic is. [00:10:36] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's why I usually tell them, don't overthink it, and try not to go to. What would other people think is the most important accomplishment I've had. Right. If it's. I won this gymnastics competition when I was 10 years old, that that should be on your list. Like, so that is permission to think about what you're good at. And it's also permission to remove this judgment in this external judgment in particular about what matters or what's important. And then I realized people just don't spend time thinking about their accomplishments in this way, even if they allow themselves the celebratory. I did it. You know, let's say you pass the bar exam. You're not sitting there going, well, what was it that got me here? It was. It was determination. It was a good strategy. You Know, it was asking for help when I needed it. We just don't really do that kind of reflection without being prompted or without being asked. So I think that's what brings up a lot of self awareness. And then they start to see the patterns like, wow, I had eight strengths. And, you know, this one thing was in all of my accomplishments, because that must be really important to me. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And so those dots begin to connect as you see that pattern playing out, that pattern that you've been ignoring the entire time. So tell me again what you call that process. [00:11:49] Speaker C: I call this the accomplishments record exercise. [00:11:53] Speaker A: I love that. So give our audience one encouragement of why they need to do the accomplishments. [00:12:00] Speaker C: Exercise, self awareness so that you can build on and leverage your strengths. Listen, it's a lot easier to build on strengths that you have naturally than to try to rewire your brain to get rid of all of your weaknesses. So spending a little bit of time to better understand your strengths and think about, okay, how could I then use that? When I am faced with a challenge or with something that's pushing me beyond what I've done before, I'm going to focus on what are the strengths I can draw from and how can I use what I already know about myself and what I know I can do well in order to help me accomplish this new challenge that's in front of me. [00:12:34] Speaker A: I love that, Kate. So thank you so much. I really appreciate that. That is a magical sword. Hello, everyone. My name is Todd Wall. Welcome to Communication Makeover, where we look at the intentional approach of breaking down your communication so that you can get your business and your life to the place that you're looking for. We all need assistance in that communication process. You know, the biggest illusion in communication is the illusion that it actually occurred. And so we need to take an intentional approach to how we engage with business, how we seek to connect with the people around us. And so it's for those of us who are wanting to learn that process. That's what this show is for. We're for you, that person that knows, hey, you know what, My message isn't always landing. I'm trying. And that's the person we're looking for on this show. And so today we've got a very nice treat. I've got Kato Sullivan from Coach select, and we're going to talk about the coaching process a little bit. We're going to talk about the approach that that you need to take in order to find that connection you're looking for. Here's the problem. We're looking at today primarily is, you know, in your business, you've got customers, you've got team members, you've got investors, you've got board members. Depending on the size of that company and the situation you're in requires situational communication. And you have to communicate differently to different types of. Of people. Some people you need to be direct. Some people you need to be curious. Some people it just requires what is the outcome you're looking for? Therefore, what kind of communication do I actually need to bring? Let me bring her on now. Kate, thank you so much for being on the show with us today. You primarily work with leaders of businesses of all size. All size. And you have a group of coaches underneath you. So I'm so intrigued to have this conversation with you. So welcome to the show. [00:15:11] Speaker C: Well, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. [00:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah, so, so. So talk to me a little bit, Kate, because you deal with all. All sorts of different coaches. Where do you. Where have you seen this dilemma of situational communication? What are some of the different ways where you've seen this become a barrier or really a gateway that opens things up? [00:15:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the short answer is I've seen it everywhere. I think it really. This is relevant for everybody because all of us are working with more than one person. Right. You're, like, you mentioned, there's board members. You might have people who report to you, who you're managing. You have peers. You know, you have managing up to multiple partners. So most roles will require the skill set. And everybody has their own unique code of the way they like working and what. How they want things done. But they don't tell you what that is. So you really only know you're violating somebody else's unspoken rule of how they want you to communicate. And then you know that things aren't going poorly. But that doesn't really give the answer of what to do. [00:16:10] Speaker A: That is good clarity. Let's camp on that just for a second. How do you know when this thing is not working, when you know you've got to do something different? How do you know? Like you said, you violated somebody's code. That sounds. That sounds like a violation. How do you know? [00:16:26] Speaker C: You know, I feel like sometimes you get very clear cues, like you say something in a meeting or you communicate and you just get the. Not the reaction you're hoping for. And sometimes the communication is a lack of communication. So I'll hear things like, oh, I've been emailing this person for weeks, and I haven't gotten a Response. I mean, that's a failure of communication if you keep reaching out to someone and you're not getting anything back. So that's when you should stop and say, does this person like email? Is this really the best way to get through to them? You know, it's probably. They're probably ignoring me for a reason. But we have to dig into what is that reason and then how can I be more effective at communicating with them? [00:16:59] Speaker A: I mean, you're so hopeful on the beginning of a sales call or a meeting of any sort, like, oh, they loved me. Oh, they love. But then it's just crickets. And so where's the situation where you've just seen this thing just go completely off the rails and go completely wrong? I mean, I really want to talk about why we need to. Why we need to get this fixed. [00:17:22] Speaker C: So I had a client a couple of years ago and I still think about him all the time. Where he had been at this organization for 15 years. He knew everybody, everybody loved him. And then he got a new boss who came in from the outside and they had this recurring project. It was actually a water operations company. So super interesting, like municipal water for an entire city. And they had this one thing that they do every year that is just maintenance. It's required. It happens. And so he went through their normal process, put together the business case, presents it to his boss, thinking this is just a complete check the box exercise because they have to do this every year. And his boss said no. And so he came to our coaching session, he was like, I have no idea what to do. Like I laid out the business case, it's so obvious. And he said no. And I think the reason he's saying no is because it wasn't his idea. And I don't know how to do this because I need to get him to say yes, but he's just said no. [00:18:12] Speaker A: And I'm stuck, just stuck. And I think that's the, that's the key thing. When the communication breaks down, you just get stuck or you run into like you said, the leader who's like, it wasn't my idea, therefore it's a ridiculous idea. And you uncover these biases of diff of different types. So talk to me about the. Talk to me about the opposite. When a situation in your coaching or one someone, one of of your team coaching someone that you've heard about, where it's just like there was that stuck place that turned into just the most beautiful field of communication and connection. [00:18:50] Speaker C: Yeah, we just had a really huge Victory. And I'm actually even happier because I was not the coach on this. But it was like wonderful outcome where we had a client working in financial services and he was really good at the quantitative side of his job and at bringing in business, but he was internally not communicating effectively people, especially with his peers. And so basically the feedback was everybody thought he was a little rougher on the edges, he was a little bit of a jerk sometimes and his stance was, you know, I'm bringing in the business, so who cares? Well, who cares was he wasn't going to make partner unless he fixed it. So we had a coaching engagement for him. He worked with this coach for six months and she really broke down for him. Like, here's how people are perceiving you. You know, when you communicate this way over email, this is how people hear it, this is how they feel about you. And she was able to help him through a lot of modifications that seemed small but had a huge impact to how people perceived him. And then he just got promoted to partner in this review cycle, which we're also excited about. It was such a great outcome for him. [00:19:52] Speaker A: You know, it really, it highlights really the power of real coaching, which is this, the magic of awareness and discovery. And it was interesting. You said it was a six month process, it wasn't an overnight. It wasn't just saying, hey, people think you're a complete jerk. And that fixed the problem. All of a sudden this awareness process, it does take a while. Talk to me a little bit about how you see this play out and this stuckness to a breakthrough. But getting through that awareness and discovery. [00:20:24] Speaker C: Stage, I mean, I'll use him as an example. I think for him it was, I'm aware that people think this about me, but he didn't think it was important. And I think we see that a lot in coaching. It's like, yeah, but that's just kind of, that's how I am as opposed to, okay, but that being that way, being the way that you have been, even if it got you to this level, is not going to get you to the next level. So let's talk about what you need to do to close that gap between where you are now and where you want to be. And then I think the other piece of the is getting it into specifics. Right. It's like it takes no more time to write, hey, hope you had a good weekend. And then what you're asking for really is not a huge behavior modification, but had a huge impact on how people feel about him. [00:21:05] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And so, so oftentimes in, in a makeover, in a communication, it is just a little thing. Leverage is a small thing that just, it enables a tip to take place. And so it's interesting you bring that out because it's not always I need to start from scratch. No, we just need to do things just a little bit differently than maybe we did before. Talk to me a little bit more about the problem and because in our next segment I want to really jump into how you've been able to help people break that down in some different, different methodology because the coaching process is extremely powerful and we, we see it on this show and where we actually doing live coaching with people and we, you just see that aha moment and so do, do you talk to me a little bit about where you see that aha where that's just that breakthrough and you see the lights turn on. [00:22:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I'll go back to my, my client at the water company because he was a perfect example of this. So again, his problem was new boss won't do anything unless he thinks it was his idea. And what my client brought to our coaching session was, I've now identified this is what's happening. He won't do anything unless he thinks it was his idea. But I've got this thing and I need him to say yes. And I don't know how to convince him that it was his idea. And he said I don't have that skill set of helping somebody think that it was their idea when it wasn't. But I knew that we talked a lot about his kids and that he had three small children. And my first job was actually teaching second grade. So I was pretty familiar with, okay, I know how children operate. They have to think something is their idea. They have to be in control. So I said, okay, if your 8 year old wanted to do something and, or you wanted them to do something and you needed them to think it was their idea, how would you do it? And he sat there for a second and he was like, yeah, I know exactly how I would do that. I said, okay, can you do that to your boss? And well, you're going to use the same approach. And he was like, yep, I 100% know how to do it. Like, see, you convinced yourself you didn't have that skill set, but I know you're doing it every single day. And once he realized, he's like, it's the same, it's the same. He's like, then I got it, I'm good. [00:23:14] Speaker A: I love that. And that really is the power of this. We're not trying to reinvent the wheel or come up with some new Pythagorean theorem, whatever a Pythagorean theorem actually is, but we're not having to come up with that. Oftentimes they know how to do the behavior. It's just out of context. Our very first episode of the show, we, the, the Deirdre was coaching someone about getting on stage and being comfortable in front of really large audience. And she said, you know, when I go in, I ride my horses, I'm able to relax and I'm, I can calmly adjust to the situation. And she goes, oh, oh. You see the pause as all the dots were, were connecting. So, Kate, I want you to stick with me. And in the next episode, we're going to get, start getting into this, the mechanism that really creates this breakthrough. So will you stick with me? [00:24:10] Speaker C: Of course. [00:24:12] Speaker A: All right, everybody stick with us after the break because this, we want to really dive into this coaching process because I really, my, I've bet my entire life on it. That's where the magic is, the makeover is in the little intentional things that you do. Let's jump into it right after this break. Stick with us. All right, welcome back, everybody. I'm glad you're sticking with us because this conversation with Kate is just, just getting started. You can see just in that, the brief glimpse into those different situations that a person just feels completely stuck at times. And, and that's where coaching really breaks things open because the answer is almost always right in front of our faces. But what a coach does is help the pull it out in front. Go, oh, I already know how to do this, don't I? And the coach just nods and say, okay, now specifically, what do you want to do first? What do you want to do second? What do you want to do third? And so let's, let's, let's bring Kate back on. Crate. Crate. That's not your name, Kate, so don't make me try to say crate again. Kate. So let's talk to me a little bit about your process, your process of coaching. So let's, let's go back to that place a person feels stuck. Where do you start with breaking this thing open? What's your first step? [00:25:59] Speaker C: So I take a strength based approach in my coaching. So I, I like to start by getting to understand people. So what is it that you do really well, you know, what is it that you really love doing? So we can, we can pull from that? I mean, in my prior example My clients saying, I don't know how to do this. And then he did know how to do it. I could pull that out because I already knew that was a strength. So I like to start by understanding people's strengths. But then we look at, okay, what's the challenge in front of us or what's the feedback that you've been given and really start to understand it. I think a lot of times, especially with communication, people are just told something like, you need to work on your communication. It's like, sure, I guess I understand that. But communication is so broad. What does that mean? You couldn't possibly know what to act on based on work on your communication skills. So that's usually the first. We do some discovery, we do some exploration, some gathering of feedback to understand what are the actual behavior. What are we talking about when we say communication. [00:26:53] Speaker A: So talk to me about that. How do you get them from that broad. How do you get them to be more specific? Because the clearer, like you're right, the clearer you are on what you're actually dealing with, the easier it is to prescribe, find a path. How do you get them to become more clear? What's, what's your secret trick? [00:27:10] Speaker C: So one of my favorite things to do is to do a 360 or to do some stakeholder interviews. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Okay. [00:27:15] Speaker C: So I will actually talk to the people who work most closely with my client. It could be. And I usually try to get. [00:27:21] Speaker A: You'll actually go. And actually, so the encouragement is make sure you talk to as many people on a 360 around that person. [00:27:28] Speaker C: That's right. I was like, I want to talk to a couple of people above you, a couple of your peers, your juniors. If you're working internally or cross functionally, some of those people get a real view from people who see my client in different situations and in different ways. And then I don't give any specific feedback. So I don't say, oh, Todd said you do this. Hey, listen, I talked to eight people and they all talked about this one thing you do. So that's clearly something that we should. That's something that's really driving the way that people are seeing you. And we should work on that thing. [00:27:57] Speaker A: Okay, I like that. So. And if someone doesn't have someone like you, that's the value of working with Coach select is you're actually going to go and do a little bit of that research. But otherwise a person's got to do some of the hard work because to ask those questions, that's difficult. So how do you, how do you get person past the emotional barrier of getting that solid feedback like that? [00:28:24] Speaker C: So I think my clients love to hate me because I always told them they're going to start off an engagement loving me and then they're going to get to this trough in the middle where they hate me because I'm making them do the difficult things they don't want to do and then they're going to come out the other end going, oh, I'm so glad you made me do that. That was worth it. But one of the things that the client is not doing at 360, I'll have them go have the follow up conversation. So let's say it's, I've gotten the, you don't communicate well and my client's sitting there like I have no idea what that means. Or yeah, I could tell it's not working but I don't know why it's not working and that's a really bad place to be. So I'll have them go follow up and have the conversation themselves. Give me some examples. What specifically could I do differently? What specifically am I doing wrong? Because I think people give feedback in order to be helpful, you know, in theory. But the way that most people give feedback is not specific enough to be helpful. So sometimes you have to do that legwork yourself. [00:29:10] Speaker A: So do you feel like the real power is putting person on a journey of discovery of some sort? I mean there are some people that are uncoachable that aren't going to make change. Would you think that's the critical factor is when they don't get in that into discovery mode? [00:29:27] Speaker C: Yes. And the thing I said, yes, absolutely right. If you go in with the attitude of this is how I am and so people can either like it or not like it, then you know, you don't want to or I've also had people say to me, you know, I'm X years old, like I'm not going to change. I mean if that's your approach, then that works for you. But I would say coaching is not worthwhile. But people who are, I know there's something happening that I'm not quite getting or I'm not quite taking the right action on and I want to figure out what that action is, then coaching is so powerful. But the thing I also say to clients, listen, this thing is true about you, whether you want to work on it or not. But there is something happening. You can either go have the difficult conversation and hear the feedback that maybe hurt will hurt your Feelings or you can ignore it, but it can still be true whether or not you investigate it. [00:30:12] Speaker A: So how do you, how do you get the person? I mean, because that's a reality check. You're wanting this person to get as honest of a reality check as possible. And so many people struggle with that over and over and over again. Feedback is difficult. Getting into that. I'm from Texas. So that getting out of the Alamo where they're in this defensive posture, how do you encourage them to get out of that defensive posture so they can get into that place of discovery? [00:30:41] Speaker C: I think the first is just that reality check world. Listen, there's something going on, right? And I think a lot of times people get distracted by something. So, oh, the, the way they deliver the feedback wasn't good or, you know, this person isn't even credible. The thing they gave me feedback on. Fine. So I'll often start with guidance. Listen, we don't know what it is. We don't know whether this person's feedback was 100% right. It probably wasn't because they're a person. So therefore they're not perfect. But let's just assume there's something useful for you in that feedback and let's go, let's go explore it. We don't have to take it at face value. It's not a yes, no, but there might be some nugget of wisdom or some perspective you haven't seen before. So let's explore with curiosity to see what is in there. Then we can decide how much of it you want to act on and what you really want to do about it. [00:31:26] Speaker A: You, you said with curiosity. I mean, just that one little descriptor. Is that something you feel like is important. I've really got to make sure they're going into curiosity mode because you said they start out in finger pointing mode. This person is how they ask the question or it's the question that. And it's like, do you see them get through? Is that the first barrier that you see often? And, and then how do you get them into that curiosity mode? [00:31:53] Speaker C: Well, I think the first is to acknowledge, right? So someone's saying like, oh, I got feedback and I don't agree with that. And let me tell you why. It's because this person yelled at me or they were a jerk about it or they're not even good at it. So I acknowledge that that's usually true. The feedback was usually given in an imperfect way. [00:32:07] Speaker A: True. Yeah. So you acknowledge that. So you're able to move that over to the side. [00:32:11] Speaker C: And then I also acknowledge it might not be totally right. Like, they don't understand there was this. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Okay, that's probably so it doesn't have to go internal. You can hold it kind of loosely. [00:32:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Sometimes the. Use the analogy of a gift. Right. The feedback is a gift. And sometimes you get a gift and you're like, oh, my God, how did you know? This is so me. Right? This is perfect. Like, I feel so seen and understood. And the times you get a gift, you know, like, oh, I see where you're going with that. Right. It wasn't. Wasn't perfect. But, yeah, I see I did mention something along those lines. Right. And then sometimes you get a gift and you're just like, absolutely not. I hate this. This is so not me. I'm kind of offended that you even thought I would like this. And probably 95% of feedback falls into that middle category where it's like, okay, yeah, you know, there's something there, but maybe I need to exchange it for something slightly different. Different color, different size. Right. And that's the exploration process with the feedback. Like, someone took the time to tell you something. There is something there you need to dig into, even if it wasn't exactly perfect in the way that it was crafted or delivered. [00:33:12] Speaker A: Yeah. So it sounds like a person starts in that first category, but the real power position is when you can get them to see things. See it as that gift that. Okay, okay. And a little head nod or the head turn. Okay. And just like, I heard you. It's like, take a pause, Take a pause. Hold it loosely and view it differently. That's a very intentional approach to that feedback because on one hand, you see it as an attack. Okay, I've got to fight back at an attack. But you said. But there's that little hybrid approach right in the middle where you go, okay, I don't accept. I don't accept this. I don't necessarily deny it either, but. Okay, what does this really mean? [00:34:02] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. What does this mean to me is a very key question. It doesn't have to. It's not a yes, no. Right. It doesn't have to be. 100% agree. 100 disagree. [00:34:11] Speaker A: That is good. [00:34:13] Speaker C: What does this mean? What could I learn from this? [00:34:17] Speaker A: Yeah, Getting out of that either or mentality and getting to a place where this could have multiple definitions. I think that is a vital, vital place to be. Because you're not discovering otherwise. You've already determined. So I think it is asking that question when you're hearing whatever this is, have you already determined the answer or are you looking for the answer? That's a whole different response and a whole different position, whole different perspective to this problem and discovering this discovery of clarity. What's one more thing you help them do to get clear on that problem? [00:35:01] Speaker C: I think it comes down to those little behaviors, right? So it's. And we often get stuck on, oh, that's not how I meant it, or that's not what I was trying to do. And so sometimes it's just focusing on. You got to separate what your intent was from how it was actually perceived and how it landed. And sometimes the smallest little behavior changes can really change how people perceive you. So one of my clients as an example, super analytical guy, he's a private equity investor and the way he was presenting to his bosses was so analytical and numbers based that they thought he didn't care or that he wasn't excited about any possible deals. And that's. He just needed to take his energy level up one notch, right. To. To smile a little more, to be a little more animated in how he was presenting the idea. And it was a very subtle shift, but it completely changed the way that people perceived him. So sometimes we just need to narrow in on like, what are these little behavior shifts that are really impactful and how can I just nudge myself a little bit more in one direction? [00:36:00] Speaker A: Is that really the power shift is when you help them recognize it's just little things. Does that take some of the weight off their shoulders even? [00:36:07] Speaker C: It totally does. Right? Cause it's like, if I take this, this client as an example, he's really introvert, introverted, he's really analytical, he's quiet, you know, and the partner that he was managing up to is the exact opposite. It like classic sales guy, really, really tall, really big, booming voice, very charismatic. And he's just like, I'm never going to be that, so I don't know if I can be successful. Yeah, for him it was. It looks like he's like, that's impossible. Right? I'm never going to be that. And that's why I start with the strengths of. Okay, but what are your strengths? And then where. Where are you having the most conflict with this person who's such a different communication style? And then how could you make really small behavior tweaks that you still feel like you. When you're not trying to be him, but you are moving one step in his direction or you're showing him something he wants to see at a really critical moment that will make him view you differently. [00:36:55] Speaker A: Oh, that is absolute magic. Kate, I want you to stick with us. And so everybody, this is so intriguing as we get to challenging the thought process. Shifting from a defined mentality of what this is, but viewing in a way where you're holding it loosely, you go into discovery and curiosity mode. And she said she's able to see shifts. Not doing big things, but doing little things. Stick with us. After the break, I'm gonna ask Kate what her secret weapon is. Everybody's got a mythical secret sword. I'm gonna ask her what her secret mythical sword is. Stick with us. [00:37:38] Speaker C: Foreign. [00:37:57] Speaker A: Welcome back to Communication Makeover. I am excited to continue this conversation with Kate. You know, going back to the original problem that we laid out. As a business owner, as a leader, you've got your customers, you've got your, you've, you've got your team members, you got board members, you got investors, you got all these different people in different situations that you actually need to talk through. So I'm going to bring Kate back on and really let's dive deeper into how do you do that effectively? I want us to lay out as much of a roadmap as we possibly can on how to situationally connect your communication in the whatever that situation is actually calling for. So, Kate, so you deal with this all the time with the leaders that you coach. Where do we start with solving this problem? If someone is at home and they're self coaching, where do they need to begin in order to diagnose what's going on in this disconnection, in this stuck feeling that they're going through? [00:39:05] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, one of the first steps I would take is to think about is this happening in a particular setting and so is this happening with one person where you're thinking of this one person? I, I'm really not connecting with them or I'm not communicating with them effectively, or is this happening in a group setting? Because what I'll do with clients, let's say when I work with investing clients and they often have to present to an investment committee and so there might be six or eight people in that meeting and we will map out each of those people and try to understand what we can understand about them. And I use a two step process where we say we're going to identify what we know about this person and especially what we know about their communication preferences and then we're going to think about how we can influence them more effectively. So if I know knowing that they are like this, then how do I need to adjust the way I'm communicating with them. So we map out who we're talking about and then we do identify and influence. [00:39:56] Speaker A: That is such an intentional approach. Because we, our initial. Because like we said before, because we're so apt to be negative towards ourself, we think, I'm not, I'm just. My whole life is horrible. I'm not connecting across the board. But you said, if you can be specific about that situation, what are they looking for and what would really influence that person? It sounds like just the power of asking the right question and getting specific. It sounds like, yeah. [00:40:23] Speaker C: And I think probably paying attention. Right. So one of the things I hear all the time, the feedback that I'll hear about clients is, you know, they need to work on reading the room. And that's one of those pieces of feedback that I think is well intentioned but pretty unhelpful. Right. Because what does that mean? Everybody wants to read the room, but I don't know how. And people who aren't reading the room, they don't know what they're missing in the reading of the room or they don't know what that means. And so this is really what I think about when I think about reading the room is it might be thinking about each person in the room and identifying like, okay, am I, am I watching them real, real time to get their feedback, but also am I planning ahead of time? Like, how do they like to communicate? You know, do they tell a story? Are they really are there? What's their energy like? Is it really like this or is it really like this? Like that's what reading the room means is, is understanding your audience and starting to match them. But when people get that feedback, they just don't know. Or you know, when you're not landing, but you don't know why you didn't land. And so it's, it's really about being intentional to unpack all of that and figure out what's the data that we have and how can we turn that data into a strategy. [00:41:28] Speaker A: And this really communicates. It's the little things. Because it's not that that cliche is incorrect, but going two more layers deeper, like three questions deeper into that, that's what makes it powerful. It's not just read the room. You just say that blankly, like, oh, yeah, but how do I do that? But when you just, you, you, you built a framework just then for how to, how to read the room. And that makes it simple. The framework makes it simple. [00:41:58] Speaker C: Yeah. All of a sudden it feels like something that you could actually execute on. Right. And sort of populate, like, I give. But give you the blank spaces, like, okay, you fill in the names of the people, and then you kind of tell me what's currently happening with them. And then, you know, how do they write their emails or what do they do when they're presenting? And then all of a sudden you realize you had a lot more of the answer and a lot more of the data than you thought you did. And then it becomes pretty easy to diagnose why you're not reading the room. Whereas before it kind of seemed like very cloudy, very unclear. And then all of a sudden the picture comes into focus. [00:42:29] Speaker A: I love that. Is there. Is there one more? What? Walk me down the. Keep walking me down the path. Reading. Yeah, you got to read the room. Yeah. And analyze well what's going to connect with. Is there anything else there? [00:42:40] Speaker C: So I. I think that people overlook how much data you're getting from people in the way that they communicate to you. Even if we take emails, Right. We all probably get too many emails, but people have really different styles for how they write your emails. So if I'm getting me, like, I don't think I'm communicating well with this person or we're not landing, and then I'll pull up the person's email and my client's email and say, let's look at how different or how similar these two emails are. Right. And I've done this with clients, and we actually had a really good laugh about it because they're so different. So it might be something like the email they wrote is like four paragraphs. It's just all narrative text. And then the email they got is two lines and two or three bullet points and then no sign off. Right. And so then you look at it, and when you compare them, you go, oh, wow. This is a radically different way of communicating. And maybe that's why we're missing each other or we're just not vibing. And so sometimes it's something very simple, like actually comparing it to say, okay, how can I make my style a little more like what they're probably implicitly expecting from me? Because they're telling you what their expectation is in the way they're writing to you. [00:43:44] Speaker A: That is brilliant. You almost mirror that person. If they talk in bullet points, then talk in bullet points. If they talk in paragraphs, then talk in paragraphs. [00:43:53] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Because there's this communication is so subjective, Right. I have people who say, don't say, I Used to have someone who would say, you know, don't say good morning. Don't say, hope you had a good weekend. Don't. Just don't anything. Like, don't put. Send an email to me unless you are asking me to do something. And then I could send someone else the email I would spend sent her. And they go, oh, my God, is Kate mad at me? And they're, they're not wrong. None of them, those emails are wrong. But they're, they're definitely going to set you up for a bad exchange if you're not paying attention to who you're sending it to and what they like. [00:44:23] Speaker A: You know, I had a, had a large client, a client group that was based in Nicaragua, and if you sent them a message that went straight to the point they thought you were angry. You had to start every text, every message with good morning, how was your day? Pause, and then you go into it, because culturally that. That's just you. You need to be. They said you, you need to start everything with sugar. [00:44:46] Speaker C: They said, like that. Yeah. And. And once you start to ask yourself, you know, that's one of the steps in the identifies. I ask my clients, that's like, hey, how do they start emails? How do they start meetings? Do they. They start with a few little small talk. Are they diving right into your agenda? And, you know, if you've worked with someone, you don't have to have a lot of data points to know the answer to that. And then you can go, okay, well, when I'm starting a meeting with them, do I dive right into the agenda? Would they usually start with small talk? Okay, that's a mismatch, and that's something I could fix. That would probably improve my trust and my rapport with that person. [00:45:18] Speaker A: So would you say it's intentional observation and intentional reaction? [00:45:23] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. So that's the, you know, once you start to identify. And the thing clients say all the time is, oh, there's this whole language out there that felt very encoded. And now I understand it, but it's actually not that hard to understand. Once you start paying attention and trying to identify preferences, they become very, very obvious very quickly. And then you say, okay, once I've identified it, now I know how to influence people differently or how I might need to just adjust differently for different people. [00:45:50] Speaker A: I love that. That's absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for the time, Kate. This is actually, I've loved. This has been powerful. [00:45:57] Speaker C: Thank you. This has been really fun. So I want to tell you a little bit about Coach select. So we are a coach matching platform. We have spent years developing a proprietary behavioral science based system which is a big fancy way of saying that we can sort the world of coaches and help you find a coach who's compatible for you. So we have a vetted network of about 60 coaches and when client comes in we say, okay, who is this person going to match with? We can do better than a Google search, we can do better than a referral. So we're going to find you a curated set of three to four coaches for you to interview who are fit for your industry, your goals, your budget, all your personality, all these factors, let you interview them and let you decide if one of our coaches is the right fit for you. [00:46:42] Speaker B: So now you've experienced the power of coaching. You just watched Kate and her techniques and it's interesting because it's the techniques that open up the power of discovery. You're peeling back the onion, learning about yourself. It's the little things and knowing that there's choices. Sometimes when we're in a situation and maybe we feel stuck in a situation, it's hard to see the forest for the trees. You've heard that expression, it's the coach and the power of coaching that draws out whatever it is that maybe you didn't think that you had the choice. Maybe it's a new direction, it's a new way of thinking. So I like to step back and say when it comes to coaching and celebrating coaching, that it's all about choices and they're compounded. And when we go in a direction that feels right and you're moving along, it's a compound effect and positive gets compounded. So just remember it's always the little things and that discovery. And next week you're going to see me in action because I'm going to do a coaching session with Brooke Sellis. She is a colleague and a friend. And Brooke's particular situation has to do with getting on stage in front of 3,000 people and working through why is it that Brooke can go on a live stream or she can be in front of maybe 500 people, but when there's 3,000, something changes. So I think that's really interesting because there's confidence in what we do and in certain situations, but you never know where a situation can take a turn and can be more challenging. So you'll see that next week. Hope you'll join us then and see you again soon on communication makeover.